Inside: THYSSEN

mit der meldung einer ke und den riesigen verlusten, kanns in den naechsten tagen recht spannend werden... von 2-stellig auf 1-stellig? wie in 2002, wo der kurs bei ? 7.30 stand? so wie es aussieht kann man mit der aktie nahezu ungefaehrdet short gehen. bereits mit der meldung fast -9%, da kann montag leicht -20% werden...  

Dort kannst du dich auslassen, da stört es keinen!  

...und immer ausgesperrt bleiben wirst!?

nun, ich glaube das thema hier ist thyssenkrupp und nicht deine allzu bekannte neigung zur userHETZE. also zurueck zum thema? thx

zu thema thyssenkrupp:

Press release, Nov. 30, 2013 - 00:02 AM (CET)
Sustainable solution found for Steel Americas ? ThyssenKrupp to end shareholding links with Outokumpu ? capital increase of up to 10 percent planned
ThyssenKrupp sells rolling and coating plant in the USA and signs long-term slab supply contract for Brazil / Settlement of financial receivable from Outokumpu - transfer of VDM and AST planned / Adjusted EBIT from continuing operations excluding Steel Americas ?1.1 billion / Adjusted EBIT from continuing operations including Steel Americas up 50 percent to ?599 million / Efficiency enhancement targets exceeded by 20 percent: savings of ?600 million / Free cash flow at ?600 million positive for first time in six years / Net financial debt at reporting date reduced by around ?800 million / Loss significantly reduced to ?1.5 billion

Despite once again reporting a loss of ?1.5 billion, ThyssenKrupp AG made important progress on its way to becoming a diversified industrial group in fiscal 2012/13. The operating targets for the continuing operations with regard to efficiency enhancement, earnings and cash flow were achieved or exceeded. Net financial debt at the reporting date (September 30) was significantly reduced. At the same time ThyssenKrupp achieved a sustainable solution for the Steel Americas business area.

Sustainable solution for Steel Americas
The ThyssenKrupp Steel USA rolling and coating plant in Calvert/Alabama is being sold to a consortium of ArcelorMittal and Nippon Steel & Sumitomo Metal Corporation (the consortium). At the same a long-term slab supply contract has been agreed that will secure the value of ThyssenKrupp CSA in Brazil. Upon closing, ThyssenKrupp will receive a purchase price of 1.55 billion US dollars from the consortium. In addition, the consortium will purchase two million tons of slabs per year from ThyssenKrupp CSA up to 2019. The plant in Brazil has an annual production capacity of around five million tons of slabs. The agreement now reached will reliably secure at least 40 percent capacity utilization of the plant for several years. In addition, stronger penetration of the slab markets in South and North America will further increase the plant's capacity utilization. The transaction is subject to the approval of regulatory authorities in the USA and a number of other countries.

Dr. Heinrich Hiesinger, Chief Executive of ThyssenKrupp AG, said: ?We have found a sustainable solution for Steel Americas. The slab supply contract is a first important step in the decoupling of the two steel plants.? He continued: ?The supply contract reduces our risks and creates the conditions to move CSA into profit in the medium term. This is the best available solution for Steel Americas at present. All other options were not financially viable.?

ThyssenKrupp will now concentrate on operating improvements at the Brazilian plant. Over the past fiscal year technical performance has been further optimized and plant efficiency improved. The combination of the sale of ThyssenKrupp Steel USA and the slab supply contract for ThyssenKrupp CSA in Brazil will help ThyssenKrupp improve its cash flow profile and key financials in the future.

Against this background the Steel Americas business area has been re-included in the Group as a continuing operation at the end of fiscal year 2012/13. Until the closing of the transaction, the North American portion will be reported separately as a disposal group. At the reporting date (September 30) the carrying value of Steel Americas was ?3.1 billion, reflecting depreciation and amortization over the year, a revaluation in connection with the sale of the plant in the USA, and the re-inclusion of ThyssenKrupp CSA.

Settlement of financial receivable from Outokumpu - transfer of VDM and AST planned
From the sale of Inoxum ThyssenKrupp holds a 29.9 percent share in Outokumpu and a financial receivable which was written down to around ?1 billion at September 30, 2013. In the context of the restructuring of Outokumpu's financing, ThyssenKrupp signed an agreement with Outokumpu on November 29, 2013 transferring 100 percent of the shares of VDM and AST as well as other smaller stainless steel service center activities to ThyssenKrupp. In return, the financial receivable created in connection with the Inoxum transaction will be transferred to Outokumpu.

In addition, ThyssenKrupp will fully divest its 29.9 percent shareholding in Outokumpu and terminate all other financial links with Outokumpu. In expectation of a capital increase at Outokumpu, the sale of the shares will probably result in a significant loss on our investment book value of 305 million euros. This will be offset by the elimination of balance sheet risks. Guido Kerkhoff will step down from the supervisory board of Outokumpu. The transfer will enable Outokumpu to fulfill the EU Commission's conditions for the Inoxum transaction in a way that preserves value. At the same time ThyssenKrupp is taking its responsibility to the employees seriously by creating the conditions for a sustainable refinancing of Outokumpu. The transaction is subject to the approval of the competent regulatory authorities and the cooperation and approval of shareholders, banks and creditors for the overall plan for a sustainable refinancing of Outokumpu. ThyssenKrupp will initially further develop the companies VDM and AST and take the necessary time to find a good solution.

Capital increase planned
The Executive Board has always stressed that a decision on capital measures can only be made when a solution has been found for Steel Americas and a better assessment can be made of the compliance risks. The Group had already reported in the past fiscal year that the German Federal Cartel Office had imposed a final fine on ThyssenKrupp in the rail cartel case and that the amnesty program at ThyssenKrupp had been completed. In this connection talks have been held with Deutsche Bahn for some time about compensation and a settlement. The negotiations are complete. ThyssenKrupp and Deutsche Bahn reached agreement in principle in mid-November. For both parties the settlement is subject to approval by the responsible bodies/funding providers.

The investigations by the Federal Cartel Office into possible price fixing in the delivery of certain steel products to the German automotive industry and its suppliers are still ongoing. The internal investigations launched in response to the investigations by the Federal Cartel Office are at an advanced stage but not yet completed. Based on the facts currently known to us, significant adverse consequences with regard to the Group's asset, financial and earnings situation cannot be ruled out.

As clarity has now been achieved for Steel Americas and the Group can better assess the compliance risks, ThyssenKrupp is planning a capital increase, the timing of which will be decided depending on capital market conditions. The Executive Board is convinced that a capital increase excluding subscription rights of up to 10 percent will achieve an appropriate balance between shareholder interests and the requirements of other strategically important stakeholders.

Special audit completed
The report on the voluntary special audit provides confirmation that ThyssenKrupp is moving in the right direction in the area of compliance. Taking into account the dynamic change process at ThyssenKrupp, the special auditors conclude that the systems and processes examined have been intensively enhanced, and the concepts and planned measures are constructive. Overall the auditors find the compliance function at ThyssenKrupp to be professionally organized and appropriately staffed. The auditors submitted proposals for further improvement which have already been taken into account or will be included in the further development of the compliance organization. As agreed, we will publish the full report with the convening of the Annual General Meeting.

Performance in fiscal year 2012/13: Operating targets achieved
ThyssenKrupp AG made important progress on its way to becoming a diversified industrial group in fiscal 2012/13. The operating targets for the continuing operations with regard to efficiency enhancement, earnings and cash flow were achieved or exceeded. Savings of ?600 million were made under the efficiency program ?impact 2015?, meaning that ThyssenKrupp exceeded its own ambitious target by 20 percent. Adjusted EBIT in the structure of the prior year was ?1.1 billion. Adjusted EBIT in the new structure came to ?599 million. For the first time in six years the full Group reported positive free cash flow of ?600 million (prior year ?(1.7) billion). As a result, net financial debt at the reporting date was down from ?5.8 billion to ?5.0 billion.

Despite the positive operating performance in the past fiscal year, the Group?s financials were weighed down by the problems in the Steel Americas business area. The operating losses and impairment charges at Steel Americas, expenses in connection with the shareholding in Outokumpu, the fine and provisions for compliance violations in the rail cartel case, and restructuring measures in connection with the reorganization of the Group again impacted the balance sheet of ThyssenKrupp and resulted in a net loss of around ?1.5 billion (prior year ?(5) billion). For this reason the Executive Board and Supervisory Board will again propose to the Annual General Meeting this year that no dividend be paid. ?The significant problems at Steel Americas are still weighing heavily on the Group. Yet despite this we achieved measurable success in improving our efficiency, earnings and cash flow,? said Dr. Heinrich Hiesinger.

The operating figures are clear evidence that the measures under the Group?s Strategic Way Forward are taking effect. Dr. Heinrich Hiesinger: ?The transformation process will take some time yet. We will need perseverance. It is important that we have a clear goal and are moving forward on our path with confidence, courage and determination ? without allowing ourselves to be pressured.?

Operating performance of the Group in fiscal year 2012/13
Order intake from continuing operations (including Steel Americas) came to ?38.6 billion, down 12 percent year-on-year. On a comparable basis, excluding disposals, the decrease was only 8 percent. Sales from continuing operations (including Steel Americas) decreased by 7 percent to ?38.6 billion. On a comparable basis sales were 3 percent lower. The main reasons for this were disposals and declines in the materials business. There were solid gains in the plant engineering business of the Industrial Solutions business area. The Elevator Technology business area set new records for orders and sales.

Adjusted for special items, EBIT from continuing operations (including Steel Americas) came to ?599 million in fiscal year 2012/2013, up from the prior-year figure of ?399 million. Adjusted EBIT from continuing operations in the structure of the prior year (excluding Steel Americas) was ?1.1 billion, fully in line with the target for the fiscal year. EBIT from continuing operations (including Steel Americas) improved from ?(3.7) billion in the prior year to ?(595) million but was once again significantly impacted by special items. These decreased from ?4.1 billion in the prior year to ?1.2 billion and mainly related to impairment charges at Steel Americas, the fine and provisions for compliance violations in the rail cartel case, and restructuring measures in connection with the reorganization of the Group.

Outlook 2013/2014 (including Steel Americas, excluding VDM and AST): Significant improvement in adjusted EBIT to ?1 billion
Even though the economic outlook remains subdued from today?s perspective, ThyssenKrupp expects the Group?s sales to grow year-on-year by a mid single-digit percentage rate. The Executive Board believes that adjusted EBIT will improve significantly from ?599 million in the past fiscal year to around ?1 billion. There are two main drivers for this: firstly the expected growth in the Group?s strong capital goods businesses, and secondly performance improvements from the efficiency program ?impact 2015?. ThyssenKrupp expects a significant improvement towards break-even earnings for fiscal 2013/2014.

Performance of the business areas in fiscal 2012/13
With the exception of Steel Americas, all continuing business areas contributed positive adjusted EBIT to the Group?s earnings from continuing operations, both cumulatively for the full fiscal year and in each fiscal quarter. The ?1.6 billion adjusted EBIT of the capital goods businesses offset the overall negative adjusted EBIT of the materials businesses (?(116) million) resulting from the charges at Steel Americas.

   At Components Technology the volume of business was lower for structural reasons due to the disposal of the Waupaca forging group in the previous year. Excluding the disposal, order intake fell slightly by 3 percent and sales were down by 4 percent to ?5.7 billion. Adjusted EBIT was also lower year-on-year at ?244 million.
   Elevator Technology continued to set new records in fiscal year 2012/2013. Order intake was up by around 6 percent from the prior year to more than ?6.5 billion, boosted among other things by pleasing developments in the new installations business in China. Sales were around 8 percent higher at ?6.2 billion. This positive performance was also reflected in an improvement in adjusted EBIT, which rose by 15 percent to ?675 million.
   The newly created Industrial Solutions business area combines the Plant Technology and Marine Systems businesses. Order intake was lower year-on-year at ?5.3 billion. The high order backlog of ?14.6 billion at September 30, 2013 continues to secure a good workload, provides planning certainty and contributes to the prospects for growth. Sales at Industrial Solutions were 7 percent higher than a year earlier at ?5.6 billion. Adjusted EBIT at ?640 million matched the high prior-year level.
   With demand very weak and materials prices down significantly from the prior year, Materials Services held up well in the reporting year ? also compared with many other market players. Order intake and sales fell by 11 percent to ?11.7 billion. Despite all the efficiency measures, the general market weakness still impacted earnings. Adjusted EBIT was down by 24 percent year-on-year to ?236 million.
   Steel Europe recorded a drop in business in the past fiscal year, mainly due to lower prices. The market weakness in Europe with the existing supply surplus put extreme pressure on steel prices. As a result, order intake was 9 percent lower year-on-year at ?9.5 billion; sales decreased by 12 percent to ?9.6 billion. The market weakness also impacted adjusted EBIT, which came to ?143 million, compared with ?247 million a year earlier. With positive adjusted EBIT again in all four quarters, Steel Europe demonstrated the quality of its business model, also compared with international competitors.
   In a generally difficult business environment order intake at Steel Americas was level with the year before at ?2.1 billion in the reporting year, though order volumes were higher. Despite increasing production and shipments, sales were down by 7 percent at ?1.9 billion as a result of low selling prices. Operating losses were halved: Adjusted EBIT improved from ?(1.0) billion the year before to ?(495) million. Key reasons for this significant improvement included cost reductions, efficiency gains, and a stronger focus on customer segments with higher margin potential.  

das sind worte, die fuer einen deutlichen kursverlust die vermeintlich beste nahrung bieten. wie gesagt, montag wirds spannend, obs 2-stellig runtergeht oder bei 1-stelligem kursverlust bleibt.  

Die sonstigen betrieblichen Erträge resultieren weitestgehend - rd. 2 Mrd. EUR - aus  Sacheinbringungen ThyssenKrup Netherland Holding BV. Versteht das jemand?


sowas resultiert in der Regel daraus wenn die Werte zu einem bestimmten Wert eingebracht wurden und im Rahmen einer Neubewertung ein höherer Verkehrswert festgestellt und bebucht wurde als der Einbringungswert war. Die Differenz ist entsprechend sonstiger betr. Ertrag


wegen Kurs:
ich denke was das für den Kurs heißt kann man sich alles denken, aber lassen wir uns doch einfach überraschen (die Aktie ist jetzt auch die ganze Zeit ohne Begründung und bekannt schlechter Unternehmensituation gestiegen, muss sich erst noch zeigen, dass die News wirklich negativ aufgenommen werden werden)  

"...die Aktie ist jetzt auch die ganze Zeit ohne Begründung und bekannt schlechter Unternehmensituation gestiegen..."

ja, ist gestiegen, aber nicht aus fundamentalen gruenden, sondern aus dem prinzip der hoffnung heraus... hoffen, es wird wohl nicht soooo schlimm sein/werden... ABER, JETZT hat man gewissheit, dass es deutlich schlimmer ist als gehofft. und wenn tka selbst sagt, man habe die verluste um ~ 1.5 mrd reduziert... dann denke ich nur... sooooo schlimm ist es?!  

Versucht man nicht den eingebrachten Betrieb zum Buchwert zu bewerten, damit die stillen Reserven nicht versteuert werden müssen? Das ist doch ungewöhnlich, dass man den str Teilwert bzw. handelsrechtlich den Zeitwert ansetzt oder?
 

Die Aktie ist jenseits von Gut und Böse bewertet, dass ist ja keine Frage. KBV von über 5 und KGV nicht mal sinnvoll interepretierbar. Vergleicht man das mit K+S z.B. wo wir KBV von 1,0x und KGV von 10 haben und wo das Unternehmen Gewinne macht, stabile Bilanz hat und wie man sieht sich auch noch gut refinanzieren kann, da wird einem schon klar, worüber man hier redet.

Trotzdem:
die Leuten waren -entschuldigt den Ausdruck- "bekloppt" genug die Aktie hier trotzdem hoch zu kaufen, also bin ich nicht vollständig sicher, ob das nicht so weiter geht nach einem mehr oder weniger großen Rücksetzer. Realistisch bewertet...naja sagen wir einfach dass Aktien von Unternehmen die Verlust machen überhaupt ein KBV von 1,5 bis 2 überschreiten ist schon selten...  

in US-GAAP und IFRS gibt es kein Niederstwertprinzip und Pflichten zur Wertberichtigung (nach oben), da die weniger Unternehmens- und Gläubigerschutz sondern mehr Aktionärs- und Infromationsinteressen berücksichtigen  

Wir reden nicht über IFRS und US-GAAP, sondern von den Sacheinbringungen bei ThyssenKrupp Nederland im handelsrechtlichen Einzelabschluss, die zu rund 2 Mrd. Euro sonstige betriebliche Erträge führten.  (S. 62)  

dann ist es wirklich eigenartig

Schenkung? xD  

wie das am Mo losgeht. Ham wir schon oefters erlebt, dass die Anleger die bei L%S am WE handeln voellig daneben lagen, volatil wirds auf alle Faelle.    

Ok, einigen wir uns auf Schenkung. :o)  

am meisten Sorgen macht im Abschlussbericht ist der Absatz bzgl. Autoblechekartell insbesondere der Satz:  "Aufgrund der derzeitigen Erkenntnislage können signifikante nachteilige Auswirkungen für die Vermögens-, Finanz- und Ertragslage des Konzerns nicht ausgeschlossen werden."  

Outukumpu ist zwar ueberraschend und aergerlich, jedoch letztendlich ein peanut  

am Montag ein Massaker!!Ui Ui...das zieht alle Stahlwerte mit runter!!

 

Risiken trägt TK halt einige mit sich rum, kann man nur hoffen dass es nicht zu diesen negativen Auswirkungen kommt.

Peanuts finde ich das mit Italien nicht, durch das "hin und her schieben" werden zwar die Abschreibungen auf ein paar 100mio beschränkt, das ist gut für die Bilanz, dass die 1,2 Mrd Darlehnsrückzahlung nicht kommen wird ist für die Liquidität aber schlecht.  

Die werden am Montag weiter steigen. Zahlen sind besser als erwartet und die Abschreibungen auf das Werk in Italien werden hier im Forum total überbewertet. Der Rest war doch vorhersehbar. Das eine Kapitalerhöhung kommen wird war doch jedem klar, oder man war schlecht informiert...  

Immerhin wird eine Baustelle nach der anderen abgebaut und NUR noch 1,5 Mrd Minus anstatt 5 Mrd Minus im Vorjahr, zudem Schulden weiter abgebaut.  

...die teilrueckabwicklung in skandinavien und der brasilianische klotz am bein...ich warte gespannt auf die 1. tradingstunde am montag, dann kann man schon den tagestrende erahnen  

wenn man will. Brasilien wird bis 2019 zu 40% Fest ausgelastet sein. Heißt auch Kosten sind gedeckt. Und da China seine 1 Kind Politik geändert hat wird die Stahlnachfrage auch wieder ansteigen.  

ist vielleicht nicht der richtige Ausdruck. Nur 1.15 Mrd fuer Alabama. N bissl enttaeuschend ist das schon, zudem diese ewig schwelenden Kartellgeschichten.

Zu Outokumpu: TK haelt 29.9% der Aktien von Outokumpu. Dieses paket steht mit 305 Mio in den Buechern, also zu einem Kurs von 50 Cent. Fuer 50 Cent bekommt man die Aktien wohl nicht an den Mann (ich kauf jedenfalls keine). Im Moment kostet sie 38 Cent. Man geht-vermutlich zurecht- von weiter fallenden Kursen aus. Aber mehr als 100 Mio wird man hier wohl nicht abschreiben muessen. 100 Mio Euro sind peanuts. Da entlaesst der Hiesinger noch n paar Vorstaende, dann hat er die locker wieder drin.    

ist erstmals seit 6 Jahren positiv, von -1,7 auf plus 0,6 Mio. Schön dumm wer heute verkauft hat bei LS, ich lach mich kaputt.  

Ich hoffe ja, Du hast recht. Allein, mir fehlt ein bissl der Glaube. Die Chancen bei 50%-50%.  

gerade an, sieht sehr gut aus Verschuldung bald unter 100% gegenüber dem Eigenkapital, alle Geschäftsbereiche positiv, außer Steel Americas, selbst mit Steel Americas positiv, nur wegen Sondereffekten, Abschreibungen -1,5 Mrd. Na schaut einfach selbst.